need help making bog for school garden

jamespmurdoch

jamespmurdoch

Carnivore
Hello all! In need of some serious advice here. Have read lots of links, but really not sure how best to advise and take on this project. Basically, some students advised and hatched out a plan to create a pond/river feature in our school garden as a place for aquatic plants/comet goldfish and a nice place to sit, Being a full sun area already attached to the garden I immediately thought it would be perfect to attach a mini bog to the garden to grow bog plants and carnivores like Sarracenia, Dionaea and temperate drosera. So far the pond is a success and has received all necessary approvals, the pond/river has been dug/lined and students are beginning to look at creating the bog. A few questions here: If attached to the edge of the river up near the pond, would the water flow be too much for the plants? Pond liner is of course needed but we’re having trouble imagining how the flow of water is going to effect that. If the roots consistently have water flowing under them will that be a bad thing? Assuming we are going to stop the flow and allow the pond/river to freeze over winter. (in Vancouverish, BC Canada) For the soil We Also have access to a large amount of washed sand of unknown origin: would testing the sand for safety be as simple as stirring some sand in distilled water, letting it sit, and then checking the TDS of the water?
Here is a picture of where we plant to place the bog (The lined off semi circle connecting the pond and the river on the left side)
Advice extremely appreciated. I am not the person building this so I don’t have all the precise details yet, i am just advising and making sure they make it safe for carnivores and other bog plants. Advice received here will be relayed to them and hopefully put into action. I know flooding can be an issue, if that’s the case should we make the bog higher than ground level? Little advice like that would be appreciated.
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Sounds like a big project. What's the area (and budget) of the CP minibog? Any concerns of non-locally native plants? Using possibly dodgy sand could be problematic, how much money would it save? How big a failure are you willing to risk? Are there professional services for such a project and if so, would they be worthwhile or affordable? Also check the TDS of the water supply.
 
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Lloyd Gordon said:
Sounds like a big project. What's the area (and budget) of the CP minibog? Any concerns of non-locally native plants? Using possibly dodgy sand could be problematic, how much money would it save? How big a failure are you willing to risk? Are there professional services for such a project and if so, would they be worthwhile or affordable? Also check the TDS of the water supply.
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i will answer more of these questions as i hear back from the person running the project! For what I can say at the moment: Budget is around 2500, can’t say how much we’ve spent so far. we have been looking around for free stuff, as well as exploiting child labor haha to cut our costs. Already gone all in with the pond, so I hope to make the bog not overly complicated and massive. Just a cute little niche microecosystem. I don’t have anywhere at my house where I can build an in ground bog so why not at my alma mader’ garden! Invasives: The area we have built the pond and plan to place the bog is directly next to a large garden which houses flowering plants perennials, fruit trees, and at the moment and unmaintained mass of weeds some good and some bad. Lots of yarrow & white clover, but also tons and tons of dandelions, common plantain, ribwort plantain, lambs quarters, creeping thistle, horse weed, etc. Essentially an assortment of common BC weeds you can find growing in non-native grass lawns, along with some other invasive flowers that have taken hold due to the addition of fresh fertile soil. I assume taking care of weeds from floating seeds while avoiding seedlings and baby beneficial plants would be quite difficult. As for the TDS of the water supply, (We would be mainly watering with a hose during summer but they were thinking of having the river part connected to have a constant flow of water through the soil?) I think that would be good for a plant like epipactus gigantea but not sure if it would be good for carnivores.. Maybe it would be a good idea to completely seperate the bog so as to allow us to plant some more nutrient demanding shrubs and aquatic plants around the pond area. I personally haven’t checked the TDS of the water supply (which probably would have been a good idea by now) but i am hopeful it’s low considering our good quality water here in BC. If it’s too high, i’m unfortunately assuming we won’t be able to go forward with the bog as it is located far from any other water sources. If that isn’t the case though and the water TDS is fine, which I genuinely think it will be (unless we are on well water which would suck lol) I think we are willing to go all in with the bog. I will go and test it on monday though for sure. I am worried about wildlife and people coming to poach plants though, as it is a public space and we have had people come and steal freshly planted fruit bushes and perennials before unfortunately. I don’t think we are willing to go with a professional service as the whole point of the project is for it to have been created by students who in turn get to learn and get hands on experience with a project like this. It’s a big learning experience for sure but I think it’s doable. When I head there on monday I will measure the approx area but it’s no larger than 3ftwd by 6 or 5ft long, pictured in the photograph there is a line carved in the dirt from the edge of where the river meets the pond.
 
Lloyd Gordon said:
Sounds like a big project. What's the area (and budget) of the CP minibog? Any concerns of non-locally native plants? Using possibly dodgy sand could be problematic, how much money would it save? How big a failure are you willing to risk? Are there professional services for such a project and if so, would they be worthwhile or affordable? Also check the TDS of the water supply.
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Do you know where we can find CP safe sand in bulk?
 
There's a number of places you can find gritty silica sand. Someone in your area should know. Any of the big box peat in big cubes is usually fine.
 
Lloyd Gordon said:
There's a number of places you can find gritty silica sand. Someone in your area should know. Any of the big box peat in big cubes is usually fine.
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Do you know of what I should look for though? I know some sands have to be washed. would we have to wash the silica sand regardless? Any bulk silica sand will do?
 
Lloyd Gordon said:
There's a number of places you can find gritty silica sand. Someone in your area should know. Any of the big box peat in big cubes is usually fine.
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Lloyd Gordon

Post in thread 'Coarse Sand Is a Nightmare to Find'

The Target Premium well filter sand is almost all silica. The Standard filter sand has a fairly high level of impurities. The sand you have looks very fine, maybe grit 30 or smaller. That fine is messy, gets on the plants, and eventually sets like cement, damaging the plants. Also I would worry about silica dust, even after washing when it's that fine a grit.
The Target Premium well filter silica sand grit 12-16, washed well, should be ok.
The risk of silicosis should be very low, if you wash it well when you buy it (wash it outside to avoid wrecking your drains). Also always wet it...
  • Like
Found this thread. Wish me luck!
 
jamespmurdoch said:
Lloyd Gordon

Post in thread 'Coarse Sand Is a Nightmare to Find'

The Target Premium well filter sand is almost all silica. The Standard filter sand has a fairly high level of impurities. The sand you have looks very fine, maybe grit 30 or smaller. That fine is messy, gets on the plants, and eventually sets like cement, damaging the plants. Also I would worry about silica dust, even after washing when it's that fine a grit.
The Target Premium well filter silica sand grit 12-16, washed well, should be ok.
The risk of silicosis should be very low, if you wash it well when you buy it (wash it outside to avoid wrecking your drains). Also always wet it...
  • Like
Found this thread. Wish me luck!
Click to expand...
I use the target brand stuff and it's good. I got it at a pool supply store because it is pool filter sand.

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I wouldn't buy it online. I would want to see the sand myself. It has to be silica sand and sieve/mesh/grit 12-16.
 
Some one in Delta BC is selling bulk peat on facebook. Check it out? Maybe he near Byrnes bog.
 

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Also consider EDPM rubber membrane they use for roofing gutters... Thicker , uv resistant and less susceptible to the polypropylene black garbage bag material is pictures you have. It is more expensive and you need special glue though.
 
jackie quan said:
Also consider EDPM rubber membrane they use for roofing gutters... Thicker , uv resistant and less susceptible to the polypropylene black garbage bag material is pictures you have. It is more expensive and you need special glue though.
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Unfortunately and fortunately this project is geared towards spending the least amount of money possible. I think we’ll be covering the polypropylene or whatever it is with a thin layer of sand, some river rock and pea gravel
 
I'm a little late to this but I may still be of some help. I don't know how I missed this post!

I helped build a small bog garden with the environmental tech students at Camosun college on a very small budget a couple years ago. They set up rocks in a wall shape lined with cheap, permeable landscape cloth to retain the peat along the edges of the open water. Pure peat was used without any sand and everything seems to be growing fine. I think that when there is a large water mass and a little flow the peat doesn't get as nasty as it does in pots and doesn't need the drainage of sand. Having sand wouldn't hurt though. Most of the sand sold on the coast here is non-calcareous and should be fine.

One issue that has been a constant annoyance is the raccoons. They rototill everything in the night except for the thickly planted areas that have plants that smell/taste bad to them (Gentians, Kalmia, Rhododendrons, etc.).

I grow a bunch of native Pacific Northwest bog/wetland plants and would be happy to donate a good amount of them if you are interested. Feel free to message me and Ill send them to you.
 
Any flooding in winter should be fine for most bog species. An influx of nutrient rich water from the surrounding soils might not be great though. I'd say it's still worth trying. Bog plants are surprisingly resilient.
 
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