Muckydoo's pings
- Thread starter Muckydoo
- Start date
pingsalot
Sprout
Hi Muckydoo, love all your beautiful pings! What is your soil mix currently? I'm growing pings in 1020 trays, no pots. I bottom water only when dry for 1-2 days with 1/2 inch rainwater, but still have overwatered pings that die on me from time to time. The mix I'm using now is equal parts fluval/perlite/vermiculite/sand/pumice. Also what is the big pink ping on this rock? It was the first ever ping that I bought, along with a gigantea, from some online nursery. They called it Montezuma but I don't think that's what it is. I love that ping, never goes dormant, always a beautiful pink and flowers quite often and, most important, never dies on me. I've gotten many babies from the original plant
You might think about shallower containers only deep enough to anchor the pings. That way the plants don't stay wet. I also only moisten the root area.
pingsalot
Sprout
Hi Lloyd, by shallower, you mean trays or pots? This is the setup I have now, you will see some pings just rot and not others. My Raspberry Blondes are especially looking bad. The top trays have slits and I lift it up to put water in the bottom tray. I have these indicator sticks in them to tell when it's totally dry on the bottom. When they turn white (dry) I just leave the trays for a 1-2 days before adding more water. It just kills me when I see them dying like this.
pingsalot
Sprout
Maybe I need more perlite to make it more airy? I was going to move these to a new tray and test some simpler combinations from growers I buy from. Mix1: 2:1:1 of these perlite/vermiculite/coarse silica sand Mix2: 3:1.5:1 perlite/pumice:milled spagnum I see so many different combinations from everyone and it's confusing. I grow these indoors under grow lights so low humidity and no breeze. I'm in Austin TX. Not a fan of peat (too much brown heart).
I use the shallow ceramic saucers. There's maybe a 1/2 cm of medium. I don't use any organic material. You have many more plants than I do so my method might be hard for you to use. With your way there's a lot of medium area which to my way of thinking makes it hard to keep the medium just moist every day or so at the root area. I find that no organic material and rationing the water helps avoid rot. You do have lots of nice plants so maybe a few rotting ones is the price you pay.
Muckydoo
Carnivorous Plant Addict
I use the mix listed here
Thread 'Best substrate for Pinguicula?' http://www.carnivorousplantsociety.ca/index.php?threads/best-substrate-for-pinguicula.6092/
I also put the mineral top layer on most of my pings. It keeps the bottom of the plant off wet soil.
Thread 'Best substrate for Pinguicula?' http://www.carnivorousplantsociety.ca/index.php?threads/best-substrate-for-pinguicula.6092/
I also put the mineral top layer on most of my pings. It keeps the bottom of the plant off wet soil.
pingsalot
Sprout
Thank you guys for all the suggestions and the link. Lloyd, I will consider your set up for some of my pickier pings. 1/2 cm is like 1/4 inch? That's hard to imagine but I'll try anything. Sometimes I think I'm killing them with too much kindness and I should neglect them more like they would be in the wild. It's very hard for me to let them dry out for even just one week. They are like my ping babies. Of course, soil that works for someone in growing in a greenhouse may not work for someone like me, indoors under lights. So, the experimentation continues. My long term plan (after I retire) is to make custom clay ping pots and have pings to go into them as a hobby. I got a mini kiln and it works great. No need for a pottery wheel or industrial kiln. These are some prototypes I made during the holidays. They're a little rough, but it's my first venture into pottery. It combines my love of pings, nature, animals and pottery
kcskou
Plant
I have a similar bottom watering setup that scales quite well even with the number of pings like you have. Lloyd waters from the top, but you are wicking water up from the bottom - in my experience that difference needs to be taken into account together with the other factors like the substrate. Here we want to make the root zone of the pings drier to reduce rot. For top watering, shallower pot means less substrate, so less moisture is retained and is harder to overwater. But for bottom watering, sitting in a tray of water means the same advice would make the root zone of the pings wetter not drier. Since water is wicked up, to reduce the moisture higher up you want to use deeper pots not shallower. If you increase the depth of the substrate, the top layer that the ping touches will be drier and less prone to rot.
In my case, most pings were quite happy with a depth of about 3 inches of just fine (sand like) pumice even when I never let the tray completely dry out. However, I sometimes find some wet mushy leaves at the base of some pings when I repot, so in the future I would increase it to 4 inch or use a slightly chunkier pumice.
Your substrate seems to be less than 3 inch deep, plus your mix has vermiculite, which holds more moisture than just pumice. So it is not surprising that the root zone of your pings are wetter and you are seeing more rot.
Try to provide some fresh air flow around the pings to help the top layer stay drier too.
But at this time of the year many of the pings are going into winter succulent mode. I am trying something new and less work - I just move the pings that start to grow winter leaves to a tray with no water and plan to just leave them alone (no water, feeding, or fertilizing) for the rest period. So far I find that they are still growing succulent leaves without water for weeks and I am monitoring them in case they shrivel up and die. But most of them look very good - the drought and cooler temperature even triggered a lot of them to flower, which is validating to see. It is easy for me to move them to a dry tray incrementally because I grow them in small square pots (2.5”x2.5”) - it may be a bit trickier with your large flats. You just have to move the whole flat together I guess.
My Raspberry Blonde started pushing out its first flower around the time I hold back refilling the tray near the end of November. It is Jan 10 now and that flower is still in full bloom and I see two more flower buds on their way.
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jeff
Carnivorous Plant Addict
Personally, I always rely on the natural capillary action of the substrate, especially for all calcicolous species (Mexican, temperate, and others).
I never water from above, always using capillary action from the saucer to the plant's roots. This allows the plant to absorb exactly what it needs, neither too much nor too little, without risk of crown rot.
I never water from above, always using capillary action from the saucer to the plant's roots. This allows the plant to absorb exactly what it needs, neither too much nor too little, without risk of crown rot.
pingsalot
Sprout
Your pings are gorgeous, so vibrant. What kind of lights are those? I moved two trays to new substrate and put them under a dome until they are adjusted. One tray is 2:1:1 of Perlite/Vermiculite/Coarse sand the other is 3:1.5:1 of Perlite/pumice/milled spagnum. I added a tiny bit of dolomite lime granules to each. The reason I don't use pots is to maximize production and save money. I filled them to 2 inches and bottom water 1/2 inch when my water indicator is dry a couple days. I also keep pings on rocks and they do amazing on those for the most part but even then, on certain rocks, in certain places, it's too damp. I have a source on Ebay that will do a wick test before I buy a pumice rock. Some wick very well or too well, others not so much. So I will pluck off pings that are looking overwatered and put them on a separate recovery rock that is not as damp but I still lose them once the process has started. If you look at these 2 ping rocks, one I've have for a couple years, no problem. The other heart shaped one has one side that is good and the other is iffy. I really don't know why. It's challenging to figure out the best setup for these beautiful plants, but that's why I enjoy this hobby.
So, you only have crushed pumice in those pots? That is essentially a pumice rock broken up into little pieces. How often do you need to water them when not succulent?
pingsalot
Sprout
For anyone here, in your experience, how hard is it to kill a ping by NOT watering it. Are there signs they need water, like drooping or shriveling leaves? Or do they just go dormant and shrink when no water is available? I was gone on vacation for 2 weeks. I filled my rock trays to the top before leaving but they were dry for at least a week (in the heat of summer) and nothing catastrophic happened when I returned. Maybe they are more resilient to water deprivation than I believe.
kcskou
Plant
Thanks for your kind words
My pings are still not as gorgeous as Muckydoo’s pings, but it is nice to have a bar set so high as an aspiration.I learned pretty much everything about growing pings from this forum, including the light. It is Barrina T5 LED Shop Light, 4FT, 2200lm, 6500K (Super Bright White), 20W.
Distance from the light measure from the surface of the substrate is 6 inches. For the pings that do better with lower light, usually those that don’t really colour up even with intense light, I increase the distance to 15 inches instead on a different level of the shelve. Those are commercial kitchen shelves, not cheap but adjustable, strong and durable, so I figure probably they will still have resell value years down the road.
In my experience, if the ping has already sent down roots into the substrate (as opposed to no roots, like a leaf pulling) generally it is easier to kill them by overwatering than underwatering.
As I hear myself saying this, I would even say that most plants grown in container are more likely to be killed by overwatering. The problem is not really the wetness, but lack of oxygen. My favourite way to grow plants is hydroponics or semi-hydroponics, so if wetness is the problem, then I shouldn’t be able to grow anything since their roots are permanently soaked in water. Even wasabi, which is notoriously prone to root rot, has been able to thrive and grow white healthy root once I lower the temperature and aerate the shit out of the water they grow in. They grew way better than their soil grown counterpart (I got two pots from the same nursery and transplanted one pot to water-culture).
Anyways I digressed, many pings in particular has evolved adaptations that allow them to survive seasonal dry spells. There is even a recent paper posted in this forum discussing that some of the pings can use CAM photosynthesis like many succulents, where plants open their stomata at night to absorb CO2, instead of in the day time when it is hot, to reduce water loss.
Yes, they came already crushed in a bag. I literally just copied what @Smilodonichthys does with his setup. Pumice could be costly depending on where you are, but it does not really break down and with a single component it is easy to reuse. I was able to buy pumice in bulk for cheaper, they are much chunkier than sand-size, as large as 3-6mm, but to my surprise the pings are still doing very well in them. Pumice wicks water so well while staying aerated, making it quite ideal for pings and really propagating plants in general. This summer I let the pots sit in 1-2 cm of filtered 0ppm water and refill the tray back to 1-2 cm once it dries out (2-4 days depending on temperature and air humidity). Many times I did not even wait and just keep maintaining that water level. If the tray dries out the pings won’t really feel it immediately since there is still a lot of moisture in 3 inch deep pumice. Honestly it is so easy once I set it up and I can’t find the motivation to try any DIY mix haha.
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pingsalot
Sprout
What a wealth of info, thanks so much Kcskou! I'm really new to this whole thing, 2 years and still learning. It all started when I started looking for a plant solution for a fruit fly infestation. One thing led to another,....never heard of pings before that. I have not spent much time here yet but the folks here are so helpful and supportive. Hope I can contribute more in the future. I'm now learning tissue culture. My other side hobby is growing mushrooms, which uses sterile technique so I didn't have to spend much to TC pings. I have ordered Japanese pumice and plan on using that as a substrate by itself. It supposedly holds waters longer than American pumice. Happy growing!
Muckydoo
Carnivorous Plant Addict
I'd use more pumice in my setup if it wasn't hard to get and when you find it, too damn expensive!! The stuff I found locally wasn't great quality either, as it was full of random rocks. Best quality I found was from Home Depot and was $80 for a 20l and 1/4" sized, so a little bit too big.
kcskou
Plant
For me it was fungus gnats infestation haha. Same story otherwise. Honestly your pings look great to me
The cheapest I could find here in BC (with acceptable quality) is $37 for 25L. They were labeled as 3-12mm but the bag I got is mostly within 3-6mm so I didn’t really have to sieve it and it is small enough for the pings - actually they stay drier with fewer mushy leaves or mold than the 1-4mm pumice that I had been using before this cheaper batch.
I guess they are cheaper where I live because BC has pumice deposits around the Garibaldi Volcanic Belt. They have been mining pumice since at least 1970s according to this government document: https://minfile.gov.bc.ca/Summary.aspx?minfilno=092JW+040
Not sure if there is any pumice left today, nor if my pumice actually came from local sources within the province itself.
Muckydoo
Carnivorous Plant Addict
Ok, let's get this thread back on track.
P. ibarrae
P. esseriana 'Giant'
P. 'Yucca Do 1713'
Really tight rosette, sturdy and firm.
Unlike others (El Mirador) you can touch this one with out it feeling like a time bomb and exploding.
Too many P. 'El Mirador' from that time I touch a winter rosette..
P. ibarrae
P. esseriana 'Giant'
P. 'Yucca Do 1713'
Really tight rosette, sturdy and firm.
Unlike others (El Mirador) you can touch this one with out it feeling like a time bomb and exploding.
Too many P. 'El Mirador' from that time I touch a winter rosette..