S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana f. pallidiflora?

cpgeek

Seedling
Hi Folks,

Early this year, I received seed labeled as S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana from a well known bog in Henderson Co., NC. Almost all the ~50 sown seed germinated this summer. While most seedlings are the typical red-purple color, a couple do appear completely green (see center in pics). I've also observed these green mutants popping up in a few seed of S. psittacina from Nicolson, MS. Time will tell if they will mature into true AF variants, but this doesn't appear as rare a phenomenon as I thought. Just curious if anyone has seen this happening in your seedling batches (or am I just a lucky bloke :))

Happy growing!

S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana McClures Bog, NC (CPS Seed)2.JPG
S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana McClures Bog, NC (CPS Seed).JPG
 

Eric

Plant
This is nice. You should treat it extra well to get it grow to maturity soon. You can check whether the growth point is all vivid green to verify whether or not this is an AF mutation or not. You should compare the shape of the pitchers with other plants from the same batch when they grow up.
This is because I would be very critical if it is not from your own seed and check carefully if there is a chance of mix up. This is a possibility that is more likely than to actually find a spontaneous mutation. Some people don't work clean and most don't protect their flowers from pollinators. AF plants are common in collections so it is possible that AF strains mix in into other breeding lines.
I've had on very few occasions one or 2 AF plants among a lot of normal seedlings. Those spontaneous / new mutants often don't grow as well. Just like those odd single AF plants found in habitat. You'd need to backcross it with healthy plants from the same location to breed healthy growing plants. This is work and takes some years but it has been done with some of the better AF strains in cultivation.
 

daniella3d

Carnivorous Plant Addict
I did not raise purpurea seeds but from the seeds that I have grown, many were like that when so young and colored up later on. Some seedlings were totally red and then ended up being green. Wait until they are 5 to 6 months old and you will have a better idea of their final color. At 6 months they should start some mature pitchers already.
 

cpgeek

Seedling
Thanks @Eric and @daniella3d your great insights. Agree, the next step is to wait for these seedlings to mature and confirm their characters. I'll be putting them on a steady diet of Maxsea in the meantime.

BTW, here the original post on the AF psittacina seedlings from Nicolson, MS:
http://ocps.proboards.com/thread/8422/psittacina-large-form-nicholson-ms

Those seedlings are now 4 years old. Below is a recent pic of one. Their pitchers appear similar to their red purple siblings and regular psits, except that they're completely green, suggesting mutation to me. Let's see if this is also the case for the purp seedlings. Stay tuned!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rqiizkb38y0bro8/S. psittacina 'Large Form' Nicolson, MS.JPG?dl=0
 

daniella3d

Carnivorous Plant Addict
I have some weirdo seedling that is half white and half normal. Not sure what it will do later on, but some pitchers come out totally white and some other have green tint and spots. Not even sure what they are but it is Leuco green open polinated. It is fun to watch such seedling grow and mature. I hope yours tune out to be anto free. There is even one pitcher that is half white and half green, like a variegata plant, lol!
 

Eric

Plant
I suggest to isolate variegated seedlings / plants until you are sure it is not caused by a virus and contagious. Some people paid high prices for variegated plants in the past only to find those were sick. (Dis-)Famous examples are the TBV (Tulip Breaking Virus) or the HVX (Hosta Virus).
I've found strange / sick looking plants, too. Like this one: A white pitchered S.purpurea ssp.purpurea growing in a sunny spot.
S_purpurea_white_4673.jpg

Other pitchers had more green otherwise it would not be viable. But I removed the plant because I didn't want to put my collection at danger. Infected plants don't get well; the only way to get rid of the virus is to burn the infected plants.
 

daniella3d

Carnivorous Plant Addict
Yes it could be, but the other 3 plants from that same pot don't have any of this. They have been grown from seeds and have been in that same pot for at least 6 months. I will separate that plant from the rest and watch it. All the sarracenias in my grow tents are from seeds.
 

steve booth

Seedling
Growing plants from seed is always rewarding because of the diversity you get, I agree with Eric's statement - This is because I would be very critical if it is not from your own seed and check carefully if there is a chance of mix up. This is a possibility that is more likely than to actually find a spontaneous mutation. Some people don't work clean and most don't protect their flowers from pollinators. AF plants are common in collections so it is possible that AF strains mix in into other breeding lines.
You would not believe the amount of plants I have had (similar to yours above a few seedlings in a batch) from seeds obtained from growers (even those considered beyond reproach) that look so different from the theoretical parent plant (s), as to be laughable. Your seed provider may have done everything correctly but another possibility is cross-contamination of previous generations before he obtained the plant or seeds to grow from, that has happened to me in the past it really is a lottery I'm afraid. Give them a while to grow out, but I hope you get montana pallidflora, if not they will still be interesting plants and thats why I like this hobby.

Cheers
Steve
 

daniella3d

Carnivorous Plant Addict
I am not sure if you were replaying to the original post or to mine. if mine, a mix up of what?
 

cpgeek

Seedling
Thanks Steve for your thoughts. Agree, seedlings afford a marvelous spectrum of diversity! This is visible even in seedlings from the above photos where a range of pitcher colors from green, pink, red and crimson can be seen.
I suppose there's no way (even by genetic methods) to draw a line between a true AF mutant var. montana f. pallidiflora from accidental cross breeding of the var. montana parent with non-montana AF purps (eg. from f. luteola or f. pallidiflora). We may never know, even if those green seedlings mature into AF adults that look identical to typical montanas. On the flip side though, "true" montanas may have been ssp. purpurea/venosas that naturally cross bred/introgessed sometime in their evolutionary past with other species (eg. flava and/or rubra). It seems then to boil down to if the line was horticultural vs. naturally drawn. Nevertheless, it would be very cool to have a "montana f. pallidiflora" :)
 
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