BC west coast of southern Vancouver island

jeff

Carnivorous Plant Addict
magnifique , but may be rather P.macroceras subsp macroceras than P.vulgaris subsp vulgaris ;)


could we see more closely the throat of one of these ping and the sepals ?

jeff
 
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magnifique , but may be rather P.macroceras subsp macroceras than P.vulgaris subsp vulgaris ;)


could we see more closely the throat of one of these ping and the sepals ?

jeff
I am at work right now but will see what I can find for a clearer throat and sepal picture when I get home this afternoon. I was assuming it was vulgaris mostly based on the corolla lobes of the lower lip not overlapping. But the calyces did seem to only be split up not much more than half their length. I am definitely no expert and very much appreciate the I.d. help. Thanks
 

roraima

Sprout
Beautiful plant and habitat pics.

Jeff as much as I respect and appreciate your expertise and advice especially with Pinguicula, personally I don't think the arguments for taxonomical separation between P. vulgaris and macroceras (Flower corolla lobes touching or not, spur length, how deeply split the sepals are) hold up very well in the field. IMHO after many trips to look at Pings on Vancouver Island to me these are just intergrading features of the same species.

Thanks for sharing.
 
magnifique , but may be rather P.macroceras subsp macroceras than P.vulgaris subsp vulgaris ;)


could we see more closely the throat of one of these ping and the sepals ?

jeff
I found some more pictures. All of these pictures were taken from the same general area but not all of them from the same year. I visit this location regularly so if there is a certain orientation of picture that would be more useful in identification I can most likely get more pictures in the next few months. After looking at these pictures I can see that in the second one the lower corolla lobes do seem to overlap. To me there seems to be too much variation even within the same population for me personally to have an opinion as to whether or not these might be considered P. macroceras
P5080116 - Copy.JPG
P6100014 - Copy.JPG
P6100022 - Copy.JPG
P6100026 - Copy.JPG
 
Beautiful plant and habitat pics.

Jeff as much as I respect and appreciate your expertise and advice especially with Pinguicula, personally I don't think the arguments for taxonomical separation between P. vulgaris and macroceras (Flower corolla lobes touching or not, spur length, how deeply split the sepals are) hold up very well in the field. IMHO after many trips to look at Pings on Vancouver Island to me these are just intergrading features of the same species.

Thanks for sharing.
That is exactly what I have found as well. It may be that P. vulgaris and P. macroceras can be distinguished genetically but as far as I can tell all of the features that might be used to try to tell them apart seem to vary even in the same population sometimes within a couple of meters. From what I have read it seems like there is some debate on whether P. macroceras is morphologically distinct enough from P. vulgaris to even be considered a separate species anyway. Thanks, I was wondering if it was just me having trouble telling the difference.
 

jeff

Carnivorous Plant Addict
Bonjour

it seems to be a macroceras subsp macroceras not a vulgaris subsp vulgaris .
the difference is with the drawings at the throat and the sepals.

the lower corolla lobes do seem to overlap. for me it is not a a very large morphological marker to differentiate a taxon .

in its revision of the pinguicula species CASPER does not speak of vulgaris found along the east coast, southeastern in United States' (alaska), Canada,

see here the vulgaris subsp vulgaris sheet ( in french)
http://fern72.free.fr/siteweb/donnees-monographie/vulvul.html
the macroceras subsp macroceras sheet ( in french)
http://fern72.free.fr/siteweb/donnees-monographie/macmac.html

see especially on these 2 sheets, the throat drawings and the shape and position of the sepals

jeff
 
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Bonjour

it seems to be a macroceras subsp macroceras not a vulgaris subsp vulgaris .
the difference is with the drawings at the throat and the sepals.

the lower corolla lobes do seem to overlap. for me it is not a a very large morphological marker to differentiate a taxon .

in its revision of the pinguicula species CASPER does not speak of vulgaris found along the east coast, southeastern in United States' (alaska), Canada,

see here the vulgaris subsp vulgaris sheet ( in french)
http://fern72.free.fr/siteweb/donnees-monographie/vulvul.html
the macroceras subsp macroceras sheet ( in french)
http://fern72.free.fr/siteweb/donnees-monographie/macmac.html

see especially on these 2 sheets, the throat drawings and the shape and position of the sepals

jeff
Maybe if it is possible I can get it moved at some point to the macroceras subsection in that case. It would be the first macroseras there so thats something. I would really like to be able to differentiate vulgaris from macroceras. If its not too much trouble can you please elaborate on what it is about as you say "the drawings of the throat and the sepals" that is different between the two? If you could point me to a resource where I can learn to identify these specific species that would be super helpful too. So far The dichotomous keys I have used have not been much help with Vancouver island pings.
 

jeff

Carnivorous Plant Addict
see my 2 sheets ( in french but with GOOGLE no problem to translate )you have the solution .

do not hesitate to click everywhere( including on yellow arrows), there are many sub folder ;)

jeff
 
Bonjour

it seems to be a macroceras subsp macroceras not a vulgaris subsp vulgaris .
the difference is with the drawings at the throat and the sepals.

the lower corolla lobes do seem to overlap. for me it is not a a very large morphological marker to differentiate a taxon .

in its revision of the pinguicula species CASPER does not speak of vulgaris found along the east coast, southeastern in United States' (alaska), Canada,

see here the vulgaris subsp vulgaris sheet ( in french)
http://fern72.free.fr/siteweb/donnees-monographie/vulvul.html
the macroceras subsp macroceras sheet ( in french)
http://fern72.free.fr/siteweb/donnees-monographie/macmac.html

see especially on these 2 sheets, the throat drawings and the shape and position of the sepals

jeff
Perfect. Those links you added have exactly the info I was looking for in asking you. Thanks
 
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